The Quest for A Durable Front Crossover Pipe

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BeemerNut

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I'm in on this as well- will someone post a picture of the crossover? I have a bunch of friends that are in NASCAR, INDY etc... I bet they would be able to help.

Designers and engineers working for NASCAR and INDY teams would never consider cutting cost corners on cheap crap parts when dealing in multi million dollar racing programs and teams on the line. This high standards company comes to mind dealing with NASCAR, INDY, and Formula one exhaust systems we've had dealings with in the past; https://https://burnsstainless.com/.....~~=o&o>......
 
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Frank8

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Sounds more like a hose job more than a pipe job.

Add this problem to the timing chain slipper issues these "high tech" engines have is no wonder people are steering clear of owning a Land Rover.

Why not, a two piece aluminum casting of each end of this crossover part with a fiber reinforced silicone tubing (high temp and pressure like used on turbo connections) center section connecting both end pieces together also allowing for thermal expansion issues?
Building a more capable Land Rover one better replacement part at a time......~~=o&o>......


Often wondered how much of the failure rate of this part is due to stress ao thermal expansion/contraction. The coefficient of thermal expansion of aluminum is high and would a solid aluminum pipe fixed at both ends not be stressed to the poin where it might also fail?
Sounds as tho BeemerNut’s suggestion makes a lot of sense. Robust ends and a middle to absorb strain.
 

BeemerNut

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Thermal expansion as plastic is much higher than glass, glass higher than aluminum, aluminum higher than iron. Fused together seams a weak point just add heat and stress, cook it a lot and now a brittle time bomb part ready for failure at any given time.
Out in the bush, leaky leaky time, now what are you going to do, tow out 75 miles? Think of that tow bill would ya?

Dad told me to never drive farther than i'm able or willing to walk owning a LR.
Only defense we both had great expectations when the Olds /Buick 215 was introduced.

On the 87 325is BMW it has two 3 into 1 cast iron exhaust manifolds bolted to the aluminum head. Off the two manifolds one solid mounted down pipe, the other with a short section of stainless bellows allowing thermal expansion before the 2 into 1 "Y" to not be a problem. DIY types i've seen (not wanting to pay for that expensive down pipe "Y") item or a custom hack job would weld in two solid down pipes now causing cracked cast manifolds. There was a reason those "Blockheads" went the added expense of materials and labor solving a KNOWN problem. LR proves over and over again not just a one time "OOPS" we need to correct a problem which is way cheaper pre production time than during or in their case after which is post warranty ended time now on the LR owners wallet. My leather seats as example made of super thin material, splitting at the seams besides long ripped sections by the 67K mile mark. Think what would of happened if those "Beefeater's" had gone the cheap materials route on their Rolls Royce's? Must add used RR's come up rather cheap due to catching up on maintenance replacement parts alone costing more than the RR is worth used. Big bright warning signs. Still a stubborn person at this end not letting Mr. D1 get the best of me keeping it running, a DIY repair person the past 52 years with several times making modifications to parts or making parts to my liking. Ya don't tell me "it's not gonna work".

If cloth embedded silicone tubing can withstand 245*F at 26 psi on turbo Subaru's of app 3" diameter it shouldn't be a problem handling LR's coolant temps and pressures, more like a life time once installed part and forget. That above $3K crossover pipe replacement then those $5-7K timing chains SNAFU posted repair bills. No thanks, a reason owning a 95 D1.

Talent your born with, you have it or you don't, it can't be learned......~~=o&o>......
 
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scott schmerge

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Often wondered how much of the failure rate of this part is due to stress ao thermal expansion/contraction. The coefficient of thermal expansion of aluminum is high and would a solid aluminum pipe fixed at both ends not be stressed to the poin where it might also fail?
Sounds as tho BeemerNut’s suggestion makes a lot of sense. Robust ends and a middle to absorb strain.

It seems the issue is not with the pipe itself, but the joint/seam between the two pieces of molded plastic pipe.

After some more thought, any prototype is probably going to wait a while to fail...and by then the production window is gone anyway, or we have no reliable means to test the viability of the part. So we all pay $1000 for a part untested/proven and then we find it’s got a similar weak point? So it lasts another 100k...is that a win? My LR4 with a 128k probably will be one or two plastic pipes away from riding off into the sunset...

So, that said, I’m thinking abandoning this project is my path. I’m happy though to continue to work on the project if others are really committed...I just probably won’t be someone who buys the untested part...
 

BeemerNut

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Not the pipe but the joint / seam still points to a failing part no matter how you dissect it.

My guess the engineer who designed this goofy fragile looking part plus the person who approved its production must be related some how to each other. A stillborn part if there ever was one.
Anyone melt down an engine because of this failing part? A replacement recall wouldn't help much with LR installing another like and kind doomed to fail again crossover part would be senseless.
Another Step up involving a class action suit possibly or is there not enough failures warranting any suit or recall? Might as well include the timing chain slipper problems bundled together under one nice tidy recall. This ain't helping possible future first time buyers confidence looking into a LR purchase, just saying.....~~=o&o>.....
 

Frank8

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It seems the issue is not with the pipe itself, but the joint/seam between the two pieces of molded plastic pipe.

After some more thought, any prototype is probably going to wait a while to fail...and by then the production window is gone anyway, or we have no reliable means to test the viability of the part. So we all pay $1000 for a part untested/proven and then we find it’s got a similar weak point? So it lasts another 100k...is that a win? My LR4 with a 128k probably will be one or two plastic pipes away from riding off into the sunset...

So, that said, I’m thinking abandoning this project is my path. I’m happy though to continue to work on the project if others are really committed...I just probably won’t be someone who buys the untested part...


Well, yes. The weakest spot will fail first. In the absence of some sort of expansion joint, like a short selsyn bellows, the strain is gonna bust something.
 

gsxr

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Well, yes. The weakest spot will fail first. In the absence of some sort of expansion joint, like a short selsyn bellows, the strain is gonna bust something.
Are we sure that expansion is the root cause of the common failure point...? Just curious. The joint/seam could be affected simply by thermal cycles, no? If it's the seam which leaks, maybe the external wrap (fiber/expoxy) on a stock pipe might help?
 

TheWidup

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This is just a thought but could it be that we need to just start flushing the coolant every 40-60k miles? It’s possible the acidity level is climbing in the cool and over time and eating the plastic crossover slowly.
 

BeemerNut

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I'd be leaning towards crappy material that can not withstand heat cycles becoming brittle which generally happens to most plastic products over time.
Design flaw another issue, add splitting seams then add the difference between aluminum engine vs plastic having different expansion rates all leading up to failures just give it time.
To have any antifreeze no matter the pH decomposing plastic I find not even a topic to consider unless it were an acid or base so concentrated it would of ate holes through the engine's water jackets including eating into your concrete garage floor rather quickly.
Maximum cost savings with bare minimum of material quality used by automotive industries the bottom line called net profit. In this case they went too cheap AGAIN now LR owners are getting screwed again with outrageous repair bills. LR's 5.0 timing chain tension slipper failures ring a bell? .....~~=o&o>.....
 

gsxr

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This is just a thought but could it be that we need to just start flushing the coolant every 40-60k miles? It’s possible the acidity level is climbing in the cool and over time and eating the plastic crossover slowly.
I was wondering the same thing...

:eek:
 

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