The Quest for A Durable Front Crossover Pipe

[Travis]

My crossover pipe just failed on my 2011 LR4 with 95k miles. At least I believe it's probably the crossover pipe. I got a low coolant message a little bit ago, noticed the coolant reservoir was low, and immediately drove to my local LR dealership in Appleton, Wisconsin. They looked at the engine with a flashlight but didn't see any leaks and filled the reservoir, telling me that sometimes they just slowly run out of coolant (I've never added in my 2.5 years of ownership of this LR4). I drove it about 300 miles or so and then the low coolant light warning light in the gauge cluster came on when I was at home. The reservoir was again empty so I won't drive the vehicle until it is fixed, since I know there is an issue. I could see a little coolant under the manifold when I looked with a flashlight, so I assume it's probably the crossover pipe. I went online and found how to remove the crossover pipe and took the old one out. I can't say for sure I know where it is leaking, but I have a new one ordered from AB. I also ordered the upper radiator hose for good measure. The water pump was replaced by the previous owner at 53,000 miles at the LR Dealership. The existing water pump looks ok to me.

If anyone on this thread wants my old crossover pipe let me know - I'll send it to you.

 

[scott schmerge]

My crossover pipe just failed on my 2011 LR4 with 95k miles. At least I believe it's probably the crossover pipe. I got a low coolant message a little bit ago, noticed the coolant reservoir was low, and immediately drove to my local LR dealership in Appleton, Wisconsin. They looked at the engine with a flashlight but didn't see any leaks and filled the reservoir, telling me that sometimes they just slowly run out of coolant (I've never added in my 2.5 years of ownership of this LR4). I drove it about 300 miles or so and then the low coolant light warning light in the gauge cluster came on when I was at home. The reservoir was again empty so I won't drive the vehicle until it is fixed, since I know there is an issue. I could see a little coolant under the manifold when I looked with a flashlight, so I assume it's probably the crossover pipe. I went online and found how to remove the crossover pipe and took the old one out. I can't say for sure I know where it is leaking, but I have a new one ordered from AB. I also ordered the upper radiator hose for good measure. The water pump was replaced by the previous owner at 53,000 miles at the LR Dealership. The existing water pump looks ok to me.

If anyone on this thread wants my old crossover pipe let me know - I'll send it to you.

You can send it my way. I’ll pm you with my address

 

[Quijote]

It would be great to build a database of the failed pipes to ascertain if there is an inherent weak point.

 

[Erik Green]

FYI I still have the one I just pulled out. Failed on the front and rear seam, also completely disintegrated where the o rings are. The weak link seems simple from what I have seen and it’s the seam between the plastic parts. On the lower y section

 

[Quijote]

Detailed photos would be awesome.

 

[Tapps33]

Hey guys, I’m a little late to the party, but as someone who just made this repair a year ago....or should I say didn’t have time to make the repair and LR lovingly billed me $3K for it....I’m in if we can come up with a solution!

That said, I’ve been wracking my brain to figure out the best way to do this and no matter which way you slice it, it’s going to be tricky. I’ve got a decent amount of experience with composites and based on the way this is designed, the best you could do would be to wrap one of the plastic tubes with carbon, but I don’t think that’s all that great a solution, because UV and heat will **** the carbon wrap pretty quick. I thought about molding the whole piece, or even parts of the tube, but again, composites don’t typically like high heat, harsh UV environments. (Hence why your not supposed to park your composite plane of the flight line...they’re supposed to be in the hangar.).

I definitely think the idea of a cad, aluminum piece is the way to go, but I think we may be able to gain some efficiency by using some pre-fab aluminum tubing for parts, then welding the assembly together. (Rather than trying to print the whole piece). The trickiest part is the crazy complex curves coming off the engine side flange then up and out from under the manifold. Perhaps that’s the part that we 3D print....preferably in 2 parts so we can machine it out then tig weld it all together....or perhaps it can be printed with cavity?...not sure, as I don’t have a lot of experience with 3D printers.

Just a thought....I know there’s got to be a better solution cause I’m smelling coolant coming from the engine again! (This is why I never let anyone else work on my vehicles....I always have to go back and correct it!)


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[Quijote]

I think a way to go about it could be to hire out a quality 3D scan of the part. We can then get a quality 3D print, have the surface fine-blasted to get a high quality surface finish and then make a low run (life only good for a few thousand) mold tool and get it molded form a better material.

If I had to pick a material, I'd go with a glass-filled (aka fiber-glass reinforced) PPA (Polyphthalamide).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphthalamide

https://www.solvay.com/en/brands/amodel-ppa

Let me spend a bit of time to see what it takes to mold that process-wise.

EDIT: I also found this in case some you care to know what it takes to use plastics under the hood.

https://www.assemblymag.com/articles/86440-plastics-under-the-hood

https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/under-the-hood-thermoplastics-tackle-tough-jobs

I just found this as well, which supports my PPA proposal.

http://www.tpacomponents.com/uploads/pdf/en/0205_EN.pdf

 

[ryanjl]

and LR lovingly billed me $3K for it....

Say what?

$3k for a crossover pipe job?

You get a gold plated Dubai special?

 

[Tapps33]

Say what?

$3k for a crossover pipe job?

You get a gold plated Dubai special?

I wish! Nah, just a new water pump and crossover pipe.... if memory serves they hit me for $1500 in parts and about $1200 in labor. To say I was beside myself would have been an understatement. But, we were in the middle of packing up for a move and I didn’t have time to take care of it. Of course as soon as I got the LR4 back, it developed a vacuum leak and idles rough...and constantly triggers the p0104 error code!....now it’s leaking coolant again.

It’s like my dad once said, “taking you car to the dealership is like banging your head against the wall as hard as you can....it just feels so good when you stop!”


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[Erik Green]

Here are photos of all the failure points. Seams are one the other is the part that holds the two o rings into the block completely disintegrated.