The Quest for A Durable Front Crossover Pipe

[LR4inAZ]

I would think 3d printing is the route to go - I want for an aerospace company that 3-D prints many parts if they can be used in a jet engine I believe I can use on our land rover engine

 

[chakadog]

Excellent images, thank you. Very helpful.

I'm a new LR4 owner trying to educate myself about the Achilles Heels it carries. The 2000 D2 we also drive around famously has a couple of brittle crossover "pipes" for coolant also prone to cracking with age. Just sharing my surprise at this over-engineered monstrosity to move some coolant around. Really too bad this can't just be a flexible radiator hose - tried and true, right? Haha - just ranting.

re 3d Printing - sure why not? Seems a bit extreme but whatever works:

https://www.kurzweilai.net/nasa-3d-printed-rocket-engine-roars-to-life

 

[scott schmerge]

I would think 3d printing is the route to go - I want for an aerospace company that 3-D prints many parts if they can be used in a jet engine I believe I can use on our land rover engine

Yes, there’s a 3D printing company called markforged that can print in metal and all types of carbon fiber, etc. pretty interesting technology. If we get a good CAD file, the intricacies of the part may be best suited for a 3D print that does a part with no seams (the failure point). The other option is to do a cast aluminum part and weld the seams

 

[Tapps33]

Looking at the old part, all the seams have flanges specifically for “welding” the plastic together. Makes me think if we go with a true 3D printed part (or cast for that matter) we could simplify the design a little? Getting rid of the flanges, as long as the material is strong enough to hold its shape, should simplify everything, if only a little bit. It might make the cad process a little easier too...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Michael Puig]

what about hydro-forming??

 

[Quijote]

Additive manufacturing (aka 3D printing) in metal or composites is great but still in its infancy, though progressing rapidly. There are great new technologies out there though most rely on some kind of sintering. Ultimately, they are still very expensive. If it were a tiny part, sure. But that pipe could quickly run into the very many hundreds of dollars, if not over $1k (at least for metals). And again, it's unlikely to give you the surface finish to allow for proper sealing without going through a secondary operation, which adds more cost.

 

[TCM75]

Just spitballin' as I know nothing about manufacturing...

What about taking an existing factory piece and wrapping all but the print connections in carbon fiber or fiberglass?

Seems like that might address the most common failure point of the factory bonding of the two halves.

Would the temp of carbon fiber curing destroy the original part?

I haven't checked in in a while but this thread caught my attention. I have experience with composites as a hobby and my company has engineers, CAD designers, and CNC machines. Don't waste time trying to think about conventional machining. That being said, this will be an expensive project if you want to have someone design and 3D print the pipe. Yes, it can be done but how much do you really want to invest? FYI, if you do end up having the part modeled, I have bought small parts from Shapeways with good results.

I would suggest using a high-temp epoxy (cured parts can tolerate ~300 degrees F) and wrap a new crossover pipe with fiberglass or Kevlar. Any benefits of carbon fiber are typically lost if you are not vacuum bagging to suck out the excess epoxy and the Kevlar also allows some flex and impact resistance. They make sell rolls of tape in various width you can just wrap like you would with an ace bandage. At least two layers in an overlapping fashion. You can also mix in additives to increase strength in areas such as joints and intersections (fillets). West System 406 colloidal silica is very versatile for this.

Anyway, it's a relatively low cost approach for those who may want to give it a shot.


http://www.uscomposites.com/kevlar.html

https://www.smooth-on.com/products/epoxamite-ht/

https://www.westsystem.com/406-colloidal-silica/

 

[BeemerNut]

The early 200 series Land Cruisers purportedly have water pump issues, too. But I gather Toyota got their **** together and the replacement part solves the issue.

If, that's a big IF that LR back in the 80's as well 94 when the Disco's entered the US market had applied Toyota's way of thinking. This making LR a lot more reliable plus increased quality of parts they would of made a larger profit selling many more LR's than the added cost of redesigning any parts. At 20+ years owning a 95 D1 4.6 w/5 speed I still get the butt end of jokes and remarks about how unreliable and expensive it is to own a LR vs a Toyota or any other brand "X" vehicles out there. Mercedes living off the quality built cars of the 50's era, trust me I own a 56 300C Mercedes. Not going to cover Mercedes modern day failing vehicles. Driving trouble free push rod engine powered vehicles 300K and counting miles each but my lawn mowers all have OHC, that count?......~~=o&o>......

 

[BeemerNut]

Say what?

$3k for a crossover pipe job?

You get a gold plated Dubai special?

Sounds more like a hose job more than a pipe job.

Add this problem to the timing chain slipper issues these "high tech" engines have is no wonder people are steering clear of owning a Land Rover.

Why not, a two piece aluminum casting of each end of this crossover part with a fiber reinforced silicone tubing (high temp and pressure like used on turbo connections) center section connecting both end pieces together also allowing for thermal expansion issues?
Building a more capable Land Rover one better replacement part at a time......~~=o&o>......

 

[BeemerNut]

what about hydro-forming??

Way too complicated ends of crossover unless it had a bunch of welded in ******* added to the main hydro formed body. Cost of ****** parts, labor assembling then welding them together the bean counters would never approve it. Parts only lasting until the warranty just expires is the profit name of the game these days with some vehicle manufactures worse than others......~~=o&o>.......