The Quest for A Durable Front Crossover Pipe

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Tapps33

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So I've been looking at the coolant diagram and I've got a few thoughts regarding the electric pump, and whether or not it'll work.

Here you can see the stock coolant flow:
LR4 Cooling system.png


If I were to replace the stock pump with a e-pump, part of the process involves removing the thermostat. so the new coolant flow would look something like this: (pardon the cheesy editing, I was in a hurry and used powerpoint then....cause I'm too cheap to buy anything nice!)

Screen Shot 2019-09-20 at 11.54.24 AM.png


On the plus side, we'd be getting rid of one of the connections coming off the outlet tube as there's no longer a reason to recirculate coolant while the engine is warming up. Plus, I think we can get rid of the majority of the thermostat housing. I have to look at the diagram again, but my brazing/tig skills may be put to the test by just fabbing up a few aluminum tube "Y" "T" or connections.

One problem I do foresee...aside from the fabrication of the crossover tube, is how to bolt new inlets to the block....although right now I'm leaning toward cutting the guts out of the stock pump housing, plugging the shaft hole and letting it free flow.

As for the crossover tube, I'm with Beemernut, I feel as though there has to be a way to fab something up real quick out of aluminum and the tabs found previously.

Although, it almost....and I stress almost, looks like if you removed the stock pump and utilized some sort of fitting for the coolant inlet, you could just use 90 degree fitting and go straight out the front of the block....obviously, some grinding may be involved.

Screen Shot 2019-09-20 at 11.59.21 AM.png


As I said before, I'm about a month or two our from this project, but in truth, the e-pump and PWM controller is about half the cost of an OEM LR water pump and thermostat....so there's a definite cost benefit to it. Plus I like having the controllability of a PWM electric pump and well, less mechanical drag on a engine is less mechanical drag. I won't really know what's possible until I get in there, but if I can swap to an e-pump, ditch a few of the plastic pipes and just use a few aluminum connectors as a crossover tube replacement....I'm in!


LR4 modified coolant system.pdf
 

BeemerNut

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I'll bite.
Your idea should and will work but remember we're dealing with the general LR owner not able to do 0.01% of what we turn a vision into a reality. I say go for it especially if this is a "toy vehicle" allowing it to be down days, weeks or longer having another vehicle to get around.
On recovering some power by not turning the water pump you'll have an increased load on the alternator which does not produce 100% efficiency output going from mechanical to electrical back down to mechanical again. Nothing's free including wasted heat generated by the alternator reducing its overall energy efficiency. Splitting hairs yes. I'd sure as hell would have your system designed allowing the easiest way of swapping out the electric pump as well the PWM unit keeping these items as a spare as backup. Call me over the top I carry a spare alternator with belt plus distributor with ignition amp plus another spare GM fuel pump. All in a neat little survival package. Starters never an issue, can bump start the 5 speed with ease single handed hence a discharged battery not able to crank is still enough energy to feed the ignition, zoom zoom. Two O2 sensors are another battery draining issue.
Watch LR of North America or the world try and silent your idea with photos as you'll be eliminating LR's $3K cash cow profits. Carry on. No skin in the game at this end, just into the 4.6 to 4.9 push rod powered OBD1 D1 5 spds. Tig is fun, if you have them burn 'em, Tig filler that is......~~=o&o>.......
 
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BeemerNut

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From the start of this thread back in Aug. 28th 2019 to Oct. 4th 2021 with 102 replies having only crossover pipe suggestions and ideas.

Not once had anyone mentioned or had at hand a "fully dressed" engine set up on a stand, suggestion set with top of engine at a 4 foot elevation allowing easy access all around from front to rear crossover pipes as well both sides of engine.
Easy comfortable (comfort comes first) access able to take measurements off the engine.

Later Tigged together aluminum stubs with O-ring grooves with mounting wings along with aluminum ******* (nip)s aimed for properly clearance for round high temp tubing
clearance connecting both ends for the crossovers vs dealing with the formed flattened center section BS also eliminating thermal expansion failure issues.

Easy access rubber tubing replacements made of a high quality that can handle high coolant temps.
Aluminum ends of the crossovers also eliminating for good future plastic rubbish failures at the O-ring areas, split two piece section failures, brittle plastic rubbish do to normal age and heat cycles with failures. Installing high temp O-rings vs those rubbish grade O-rings LR also installed.

Water pumps along with timing chains and guides another expensive nightmare issue along with crossover pipe failures if upgraded would at least reduce three major failure items stat would strand you out in the bush.

This brings up radiators, what is it made of? Plastic and aluminum with a O-ring that will fail along with brittle plastic over years of heat cycles.


Once the crossover pieces with wings measurements with ******* (nip)s for crossover (tubing) were established it'd be a machining (lathe), milling (Bridgeport) pieces then set in a jig or on engine in stand, Tig tacked then welded together the pieces.

This how I woiuld of resolved this crossover issue if I was "given a freebie" LR4 (?) if it needed a crossover pipe replacement as I would of done both ends in aluminum with high temp rubber tube connections. Eliminated brittle failing plastic forever. vs replacing with more expensive cheap rubbish again.

Plastic top of radiator "burp plug" vs early Range Rovers that had a brass "burp plug" an item that failed me out in the bush. The head of plug with O-ring popped off. Tree branch tapered plug threaded into the radiator got me out. A Pick-n-Pull brass plug replacement.

Fully brass radiator custom made eliminated LR's corner cutting matherials used even back back in 95, i'd hate to think how much more plastic has been installed on 2010 and newer LR's, a lot more low quality plastic doomed to failure.

The 58 LR diesel used at the ranch is still a trouble free LR 63 years and counting. Yes if does not have 17 cup holders but gets us around on 1,700 acres from a little flat to hilly terrain.
LR lost their way in the reliability department and been going downhill over the years.

It's a race to see who is at the bottom of the most unreliable list, LR or Mercedes, this by the LR service department writer friend......~~=o&o>.....

 
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timc930

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FWIW, the new design that I am installing on my 2015 LR4 (80k)looks much stronger, and appears to be almost twice as thick in some areas. My old pipe was totally fine as well, but one of the pipes that goes into the block did break off BELOW the oring when I removed. The other side was fine. So my guess, with the new design, catastrophic failure is reduced significantly. I replaced the rear as well, but the old one was still flexible as well as the orings. For me, this is now a 5yr/100k maint part, along with all the hoses and WP, which is pretty normal with all cars that I own.
 
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ttforcefed

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my replaced Y pipe from 2018 (car has 75k miles, 150K now) just went. looks like they have an updated part now that shld be good for life, is that correct?
 

ttforcefed

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pics. luckily no engine damage. coolant light never even went on even though all the coolant was gone.
 

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Daveykid

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Not sure if this was brought up earlier in this thread only because I don't feel like going through 11 pages of comments :) but the next time my crossover pipes need to be replaced my dealer said they would gladly replace them with these. I haven't done a ton of research on them since I just did my crossover pipes less than 1K miles ago but it seems like something at least worth checking out.

 

Nechaken

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Not sure if this was brought up earlier in this thread only because I don't feel like going through 11 pages of comments :) but the next time my crossover pipes need to be replaced my dealer said they would gladly replace them with these. I haven't done a ton of research on them since I just did my crossover pipes less than 1K miles ago but it seems like something at least worth checking out.


I put on a version of that in the spring. Working so far.
 

16FujiDisco

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I’d be game for using these next go round; hopefully by then we have a few of you that can give some good long term updates.
 

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